The Power of Peer Support: Building an Elite and Engaged Community of Chief Marketing Officers

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Today we are talking about how to build an elite and engaged community, and we have the perfect guest to help us talk about this Drew Neiser.

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Welcome to the show.

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Hey Eric, Thank you so much for having me.

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It's really fun to talk.

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Now, drew and I have been friends for many, many years, so I know him very well.

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But, drew, for the audience's benefit, why don't you take a minute or two and tell them a little bit about who you are and what you do?

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It's so funny because we actually met through the CMO Club and that's such a relevant part of the story that I'll tell about CMO Huddles.

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But when we met I was running an agency called Renegade, which I did for 30 years, but as part of that helping Renegade, we also were very involved with the very beginning of the CMO Club and I remember meeting you there and one of the things that I started during that relationship was interviewing CMOs and if I think about the through line of everything for CMO huddles, it all started as a result of me interviewing really smart people like you and building these relationships with chief marketing officers.

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Yeah, the CMO club was a great group of a thousand CMOs across the country, both B2C and B2B, and you and I, particularly, for many years, focused on the B2B part of that.

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There's a lot of great B2B CMOs in that group and I think what you're going to tell us a story about is how you decided to do something similar but much improved.

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Well, it's similar and different, and I am and you're absolutely right.

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And the through line is so our buddy, pete Krenick, on March 2nd 2020, sold the CMO club to Salesforce and literally that day I went, oh, that's interesting, that's not going to work.

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And then, of course, two weeks later, the pandemic struck and I said, oh my gosh, that's really not going to work.

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The reason I was confident it wouldn't work is one eventually Salesforce would think we got to monetize this and that would kind of make it a problem.

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And two, once the pandemic hit, said this is a group that was dependent on meeting in person.

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We can build a virtual first community.

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So April 1st 2020, I got 20 friends, most of whom were CMs, who were B2B, who I had probably met through the club, and we started huddling.

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And here's a crazy thing Over the next six months we met 55 times and, if you remember, april through September 2020 was an incredibly turbulent time.

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We all learned how to work from home.

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We all learned how to manage from home.

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We all had to deal with pandemic and what that meant and the fact that suddenly you had to do marketing without physical events for B2B.

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That was huge.

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And then you had Black Lives Matter and just so many things happened that summer that, through the course of it, what was great was this group said these 18 to 20 CMOs said Drew, there's a business here, here's how you should set it up, here's what you should charge.

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And so, october 1st 2020, we turned on CMO Huddles as a paid business.

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And so you moved from running an agency into building this community of chief marketing officers, which is definitely a niche that is really important, and the people who are in those jobs.

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They have a tough job and they need their peers to support them because they don't get support in the corporate structure like a lot of other roles do.

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Right.

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Oh, exactly, and you know this.

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I mean, you've been a CMO many times and you're sitting in a group of a board meeting, these leadership team meeting, and there isn't a single person in that room who understands marketing, who understands how the pieces fit together, and so it's incredibly lonely and you can't tell your peer, the folks that work with you, that you don't know something.

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So in an ideal world, you have instant access to 150 really smart CMOs who share your challenges and, with a quick email, say, hey, here's my challenge, who can I talk to?

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And that's been fundamental to CMO huddles from the beginning, this notion of peer matching and so forth.

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But what's interesting is the common thread through all of the folks is this notion of curiosity, a consistent curiosity.

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And it's really simple.

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My qualifying question for the CMOs of CMO huddles is name two challenges that you would love to go deep on with another CMO.

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And if folks can't think of two challenges right off the top of their head, they are simply too incurious.

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They have all the answers, they're done, they're finished, it's great, god bless them, but for the rest of us it is a never ending learning curve.

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And so you've built up this group of highly qualified people.

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You're pretty tight about who you let in to over 300 people, and it's not about quantity, it's about quality.

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Right, talk a little bit about that and how you sort of qualify people to let them be in the group.

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Yeah, and so you're right.

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It's such an important thing and so, in part of ingrained into CMO huddles, I don't think about it that much.

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But we have a North star which is is it good for the huddler?

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And that's like.

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That allows us to make every decision and push decisions down, because if it's good for the huddler, anybody on the team can do it, If it's not, or you have a question about it, and that makes it really easy when we're qualifying people.

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Does this person bring something to the table?

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Because we can't just have folks who are like their first time CMOs and they don't know what they're doing and they're just so needy.

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We have to have folks that also have answers, who've done this many times.

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That doesn't mean everyone in the community has to be that way, but you need to be able to bring some depth of expertise in some area.

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So when we set up a one-on-one, there's a give and a get.

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And I think the focus on B2B because B2B and B2C are different is again.

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I was part of the club for 12 years and in the last four I was running the B2B curriculum and, god bless Pete, he put on incredible events.

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But when I was in charge of the B2B portion, I would fight to get three sessions and they were never mainstay sessions.

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And the challenge is, the conversations when you bring a group of B2B CMOs together are very different than the conversations that B2C have.

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It's just they are this and as much as we're all selling to people and you'll hear that blah blah, blah blah about it's not B2B or B2C, it's B2H or H2H.

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The truth is it's fundamentally different.

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They're different inside the organization and it's different outside the organization and the motions are different and there are things that they can learn from each other.

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But I so love the fact that we are only B to B and so does our community.

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Yeah, because it's a lot more relevant.

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You can't really get the same learnings if people don't look like what you're trying to do.

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If they look, fundamentally different, right, yeah, and the interesting ones, where it gets a little dicey is the B2B2C, because they and it's funny, I've sort of come to this notion that I really want to talk to a lot more B2B2C because they do, living in both worlds, they do more interesting marketing than the folks that are just B2B.

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Their conversations are different, their challenges, their stress levels are different and in terms of what is causing them stress, yeah, and so this was really easy to do, right.

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Oh my gosh.

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So you know, let's just consider the life of a.

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So in the last four and a half or or almost five years now, has seen a CMO tenure gotten longer?

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No, so does that mean that we are dealing with a group of folks that started join and then suddenly, 18 months in, they're out of work and we suddenly need to support them in transition, which we do.

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So you have that issue.

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You have the issue that CMOs don't seem to be completely in control of their time, because you have CEOs and board members who feel like they could just jump in.

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So getting this community to engage, keeping them as members, attracting new ones, and getting them to have the courage to say I need this to do my job better, all of those things are hard, and so I so appreciate you interviewing me here, and hopefully other CMOs will do it, because when they have these conversations and it's amazing thing, when you come to a huddle, inevitably someone will share a challenge and then another person will say, oh my God, I have that same challenge.

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Thank you, because it's like I'm not alone, but it's hard.

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Running a community is not easy and you always have the challenge of and our retention rate is really good, assuming they keep their jobs.

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But it's hard, and it's hard and there's lots of competition coming at it from different angles and you have to be nimble and continue to evolve the products.

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And this gets us to the penguins.

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I think you've done some things to make B2B marketing not boring with penguins.

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Why don't?

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you share a little bit about what you're doing with that.

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Yeah.

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So a couple of years ago I was down in the Galapagos after we had spent time in the sea and actually swimming around with penguins.

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The naturalist at that evening said, hey, what's a group of penguins called?

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And the answer was a huddle and it was like the light bulbs went off.

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I literally texted our art director and said I want a penguin on top of our logo and by the time we got back for the Galapagos we did have the penguins embedded.

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I changed my title to Penguin in Chief.

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I started wearing this whenever we record our Tuesday tips, this little penguin hat, and it's remarkable the parallels between penguins.

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But the whole point of it is we can have some fun.

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We're a B2B brand but we don't have to take ourselves serious.

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We take the work very seriously and these little guys, these little stress balls, are just a reminder that whenever you have a challenge, know that yeah, you can squeeze this, but you can squeeze our community for relief.

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You can get the value you need, because it's a hard, hard job and we got to have a little fun along the way.

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I think that one of the things that you and others in the group have talked about is is that, broadly within their own companies, chief marketing officers, like the marketing that they and their teams do, can't be boring, because people don't want just buzzword bingo, they want something that's interesting, and you can make just about anything interesting, right?

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You can.

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I mean, I go back to, I mean, years ago worked on packaged goods and one of the products in our portfolio besides Listerine was a hemorrhoid remedy called Anusol, and we actually managed to make that interesting by we actually hired some really interesting talent and you could do it, it's possible.

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So if you can make hemorrhoid remedies interesting, surely you can find something in B2B to keep it from being boring.

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And it has a ripple effect everywhere.

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Employees are happier, Customers go oh, I like what you're doing there, so yeah, but man, I got to tell you right now B2B is more boring than less.

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I mean, if I see another website with AI-driven, AI-built, AI-inspired people, it's not going to work.

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AI washing isn't going to work any better than greenwashing did.

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People got to get a little bit more creative and B2B broadly.

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I think that's a good takeaway for a lot of people.

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One of the things that you've done to make the group successful is you do have people pay to be a part of the group, and I think this is interesting because there's a lot of communities or groups online that are free and most of them don't work.

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So why don't you just talk a little bit about that?

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Because I think if you invest nothing, you get nothing is the way I look at a lot of marketing.

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I'm just curious what your experience has been in building the community and having people put some money behind their time.

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Look, there's no doubt that if someone is paying for it they're going to pay attention, but it also just allows us to keep the quality of everything higher and the quality of the service.

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And so you know, we sort of look at this in in.

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In CMO huddles is there sort of three key components peers, pr and and penguins, and then the.

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You know, the peers part is is really important and so if we notice, for example, you haven't been able to make a huddle in a couple of months, we'll find we'll set you up with a one-on-one, because we know we can get value there and we know we have enough information on that because you can't always make it to a huddle.

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We wouldn't be able to afford to do that to staff it.

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That's part one.

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Part two of this is that one of the things that CMOs classically do is neglect their personal brands.

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We refuse to let CMOs do that.

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We get them on our live streaming show, we get them on the podcast, we get them in the Tuesday tips and so, again, they wouldn't do this on their own and we sort of force it.

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But we couldn't do it if it wasn't a paid community.

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The other part of it is just that it acts as a qualifier and it just keeps folks that shouldn't be there from joining.

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Yeah, I mean you get what you pay for, so if you don't pay anything, you're not really going to get much from it.

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I think it comes back to that.

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But it's not prohibitively expensive and I think that the reason you've been successful in building the group and having people stay in for a long time is because they pay a little bit and they get a lot of value.

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So it's a great qualifier versus Reddit groups, which are free but are also Right, and just consider this.

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I mean one of the things that the remarkable parts and I love this.

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So, during CMO Huddle Studio, which is a live streaming show that we do, then that becomes a podcast.

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We have three guests and I actually ask the guests in the middle of the show if they have anything nice to say about CMO Huddles.

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And what's interesting is we get a lot of wonderful feedback and that makes me feel good.

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But one of the CMOs almost every single time says I was reading a recap or a newsletter.

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And they get a recap every single week that I edit.

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Our open rate on those is over 80%.

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They say I put this in front of our CEO because there was information there that was really timely, or I had our team look at this because you were talking about that.

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That's having a meaningful impact on the business.

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The fact that an email gets opened is crazy and, again, a lot of time goes into editing those things to make sure and this is not something you can run through Chad TPT and say, hey, it's time of a very senior, experienced individual looking at this stuff and helping turn it into information that CMOs will find valuable.

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So, again, couldn't do that if it was free.

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And you also expanded the group.

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Now that we've all survived COVID, you've expanded the group into doing things like dinners and in-person events like the Super Huddle.

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Talk a little bit about that growth.

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This was, in truth, probably something I should have done three years ago or two years ago, but I knew how much work it was going to be.

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We had our first Super Huddle last November.

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You were there.

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It was really an incredible thing.

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We had over 100 folks crammed into a ballroom.

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Incredible thing.

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We had over a hundred folks crammed into a ballroom and it was rapid fire content and folks were really, really engaged.

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And it was amazing to have folks that had huddlers, as we call them, who had been only together virtually to physically meet and do that.

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That was great.

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And I knew this was important because, look, in CMO Club Pete, I'm the only other person who went to all 24 of their summits over a 12-year period.

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I went to every single one of them and I know the value of this.

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I was just a little bit worried about stressing our organization and so I got tricked into it because I thought I was going to do a lunch out there in November, and then I thought I was going to do a lunch out there in November, and then I thought I was going to have free space and the next thing, you know, we had four months to plan an event for over a hundred people.

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So it was a minor miracle, but it was an extraordinary thing and we've already decided we'll do it again next year.

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And then in between we do mainly lunch huddles, because it's really hard to get people to come in for a dinner these days, but we do those in multiple markets and we'll probably do 10 to 15 of those in the next year because, again, there's nothing like face-to-face.

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What else would you say has been part of the reason that you've been able to build this elite and engaged community?

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Is there any other part of the formula here that has led to the great collaborations between the people in the group?

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I think the thing that we've continued to try is find different ways for CMOs to connect with each other.

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That, at the core, is what this is about.

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So we do have a Slack channel and certain members of our community are highly engaged and find that hugely valuable.

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Our CMO Huddle Studio Show, ironically, where you have three CMOs.

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That often is a way that they become bonded the Lunch Huddle.

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You have to have different ways for CMOs to connect and of course you have to have different ways for CMOs to connect and, of course, the one-on-ones that we arrange and that takes two right.

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We say, hey, you two should talk.

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The CMOs have to make the time to do it and there's just a lot of myriad of details behind the scenes.

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There are probably a couple hundred EAs that we built relationships with that we rely on to make sure that the folks can they make this huddle If not, and work with them to manage it.

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It's a lot of detail and follow-up with folks to just make sure that the content's right.

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Oh, and I know one other thing In addition to the peer huddles, we bring in experts, bestselling authors as well as experts on things, and we try to make this really timely.

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So no surprise.

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In 2024, we probably had six bonus huddles related to generative AI as CMOs were grappling with how to do it Next year.

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I've already got two scheduled on this CRO thing.

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Are they friend or enemy?

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Are we going to be reporting to them and, if so, or could a CMO become one?

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And so it's not quite newsjacking, but we're trying to stay a little bit ahead of where the CMO are and make sure that we're getting that information and bringing in experts to them, because they don't have time to do it.

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That's amazing.

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So, as a result of all these different ways to collaborate over the last couple of years, have you seen the chief marketing officers that are in the group supporting each other and, as a result, being able to do some pretty amazing, remarkable things at their companies because of the support they got from each other?

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Absolutely.

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I think the biggest thing is the confidence that you have.

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You've not only got your team involved, but you vetted it with whatever it is that big thing.

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You either got inspired by another CMO or you vetted it through a conversation.

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I was thinking about this what do you think?

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And it gives you the confidence to sort of say no, that request, that was wrong.

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I can push back on the PE firm or the VC firm because they're just not coming from a place that makes sense.

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But if you don't have sort of this resource of other CMOs are going through the same challenge, it's hard to be confident.

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And if you don't have the confidence, you're not going to be able to sell it.

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I think confidence and belief go hand in hand, and giving people the belief that, oh, other people are doing this successfully, I can do it successfully too is pretty powerful.

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What made you decide back in 2020 to make this the focus, instead of doing the other things you were doing running a very successful agency the things you were doing running a very successful agency.

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What made you passionate about creating this sort of elite and engaged community?

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Well, I hedged bets here and here's the key thing when we started CMO Huddles, renegade was the business and had been a business of mine.

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And I mean, eric, you were a multi-time client and I loved running an agency.

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But I'd been a renegade for a long time and when we started Huddles, I wasn't sure it could be a business, a standalone business.

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So I hedged a little bit but in 2023, by three years into it, it was clear it was a business.

00:22:47.401 --> 00:23:07.114
It was clear that this was the right time for me to make that pivot and I found myself getting a lot more joy out of this business, where I get to talk and work with a lot of CMOs and help me, than I did as running an agency.

00:23:07.114 --> 00:23:13.478
And I think that's just sort of a very individual journey that I've had and I just feel so fortunate.

00:23:13.478 --> 00:23:17.151
All that legwork, all those interviews I mean it's over 600.

00:23:17.151 --> 00:23:20.686
I didn't know how that would pay off and I think this is a career lesson.

00:23:21.299 --> 00:23:44.342
Sometimes you do things like you're doing with the podcast you don't know where it'll go, but it certainly ended in a wonderful place place, and probably the timeline you just mentioned suggests that you have to put some significant time into these things, like you tested it for quite a while before you came to that conclusion.

00:23:44.342 --> 00:23:48.875
Right, it wasn't like a week or a month or even a year.

00:23:48.875 --> 00:23:54.586
It was being consistent about it and Ford investing in it, and then you're like, oh, there's something here.

00:23:54.586 --> 00:23:58.403
After a couple of years it's really built into something interesting.

00:23:58.403 --> 00:24:04.430
But I think a lot of people think that success comes overnight and I think with building communities that's definitely not true.

00:24:05.460 --> 00:24:06.099
Yeah, oh gosh.

00:24:06.099 --> 00:24:40.228
No, it takes time and it's brick by brick and you have to really be careful that there's a high value proposition at the beginning so that your core people stay with you, because you can'tMO huddles sort of one CMO at a time and now we're looking to scale it within reason.

00:24:40.228 --> 00:24:51.193
We don't have any investors, I don't have an end line where I have to hit a certain target, so really it's about how many CMOs can we help?

00:24:54.492 --> 00:24:56.078
Really, it's about how many CMOs can we help.

00:24:56.078 --> 00:25:05.034
If B2B marketing leaders are interested in being part of the group, they can go to cmohuddlescom and book a one-on-one with you and get some more one-on-one perspective with me about this.

00:25:05.839 --> 00:25:10.801
Yeah, and we'll give them a guest pass which will enable them to experience getting the recaps.

00:25:10.801 --> 00:25:19.728
To come to one of our huddles, and we have at least five huddles every month, including three period huddles, a bonus huddle and a career huddle with the bestselling authors.

00:25:19.728 --> 00:25:26.632
So, yeah, you get a month to try it and we make sure that you have a really positive experience.

00:25:28.901 --> 00:25:29.241
Awesome.

00:25:29.241 --> 00:25:31.166
Encourage everyone strongly to do that.

00:25:31.166 --> 00:25:34.983
If you are a B2B marketing leader, get into the Penguin Club.

00:25:34.983 --> 00:25:38.492
You will not regret it and it won't be boring either.

00:25:39.279 --> 00:25:46.603
Any final thoughts, Drew I would simply say two things that every CMO that I talked to who's in transition.

00:25:46.603 --> 00:25:47.508
They have two regrets.

00:25:47.508 --> 00:25:49.237
One, they didn't build their peer network.

00:25:49.237 --> 00:25:51.061
Two, they didn't build their personal brands.

00:25:51.061 --> 00:25:57.634
Joining CMO Huddle solves those two things in a very easy and fun and really enriching way.

00:25:57.634 --> 00:25:59.303
So yeah, come on down.

00:26:01.307 --> 00:26:01.689
Awesome.

00:26:01.689 --> 00:26:03.173
Thanks so much for being with us today.

00:26:03.173 --> 00:26:04.624
Thanks for being on the show.

00:26:04.624 --> 00:26:05.145
We appreciate it.

00:26:05.145 --> 00:26:07.055
Hey, derek, thank you.