How to Stand Out and Drive Growth by Achieving Sales & Marketing Alignment

WEBVTT

00:00:00.340 --> 00:00:01.981
Welcome to today's episode.

00:00:01.981 --> 00:00:04.344
Our guest today is Stacey.

00:00:04.344 --> 00:00:15.496
She has been a Fortune 500 marketing leader who has turned into doing consulting, coaching, and she's written several great books.

00:00:15.496 --> 00:00:23.913
She's worked with over 45 B2B brands to help them simplify their go-to-market strategy and achieve their growth goals.

00:00:23.913 --> 00:00:25.234
Welcome to the show.

00:00:26.199 --> 00:00:27.265
Yes, thank you for having me.

00:00:27.539 --> 00:00:28.422
Appreciate you being here.

00:00:28.422 --> 00:00:38.033
Before we jump into a story about some of the best marketing you've done, why don't you give us a minute or two of context about who you are and what you do?

00:00:38.700 --> 00:00:43.567
So, as you mentioned, I started my career in the corporate side of marketing.

00:00:43.567 --> 00:00:56.573
I worked for five different Fortune 500 companies before deciding to start my own consultancy and I have since worked really specializing with B2B brands and helping to simplify their marketing strategy.

00:00:56.573 --> 00:01:05.328
I have found that a lot of companies get in, they want to start executing right away and then fast forward a couple of years and they realize something's not working.

00:01:05.328 --> 00:01:07.512
They don't necessarily know what that something is.

00:01:07.512 --> 00:01:23.489
That's generally when I get carbon to help reevaluate the go-to-market strategy and, recognizing that let's say there's seven steps to building a marketing strategy, everybody wants to start at step seven execute and so I can rewind and help them go back to the basics.

00:01:23.489 --> 00:01:25.132
I do not work with startups.

00:01:25.132 --> 00:01:36.871
I work with galing organizations who really want to have more sophistication and become more customer-focused and add value for customers so that in the long term, they continue to thrive as a business.

00:01:37.799 --> 00:01:46.649
Awesome, and you've written a couple books that I think are pretty relevant to marketers who want to be remarkable.

00:01:46.649 --> 00:01:48.862
Why don't you tell us a little bit about the books you've done?

00:01:49.444 --> 00:01:55.605
Yes, okay, so I co-wrote two books with a couple of other authors who are out in the UK.

00:01:55.605 --> 00:01:57.629
The first was called Valuology.

00:01:57.629 --> 00:02:03.033
It's all about how to build a valued proposition that is profitable and will sell.

00:02:03.033 --> 00:02:05.944
The book is aimed at marketing and sales professionals.

00:02:05.944 --> 00:02:19.542
What we found is that most marketing teams are responsible for creating value propositions, and yet they've never learned how to create a value proposition, and so this is bridging the gap between marketing, sales and what customers want, so that you can communicate more effectively.

00:02:19.542 --> 00:02:22.532
The second is standout marketing.

00:02:22.832 --> 00:02:34.568
This is also something we did a bunch of research, and we realized there's this massive sea of sameness out there that companies are telling the exact same story to customers, the exact same why-if story.

00:02:35.200 --> 00:02:53.763
We started digging into why this was really happening, and what we found was that there is a competency gap within organizations, and so we identified five key competencies that make up the acronym VALUE that marketing and sales teams really need to focus on if they want to stand out.

00:02:53.763 --> 00:03:06.271
A lot of marketing teams, as I mentioned, are skipping steps, or you have impatient leadership that's making people skip steps, and so there's this huge sort of talent gap happening within marketing, so that one's all about how to build those competencies.

00:03:06.271 --> 00:03:08.544
And then I wrote a mini book.

00:03:08.544 --> 00:03:17.586
That's an ebook called Look Inside the Real Reason You're Not Winning the Marketing Game, and this one is aimed at CEOs primarily.

00:03:17.586 --> 00:03:21.974
To really understand the fundamentals of marketing.

00:03:21.974 --> 00:03:24.748
I came up with a model that I call the A3 model.

00:03:24.748 --> 00:03:31.092
That talks about how you need alignment, accountability and then acceleration in your marketing plan.

00:03:31.092 --> 00:03:36.502
Everybody wants to start with accelerate, skipping those first two steps, and so that book is aimed for CEOs.

00:03:37.064 --> 00:03:39.872
Sounds like three really great books for marketers to read.

00:03:39.872 --> 00:03:43.670
I assume it was just really simple to crank those out like a walk in the park.

00:03:43.819 --> 00:03:46.229
Yes, yeah, yes, yeah, exactly.

00:03:46.229 --> 00:03:52.132
It was a process, that's for sure, and I'm happy to chat with anybody who thinks they have a book in them.

00:03:52.132 --> 00:03:53.439
I can walk through the process.

00:03:53.439 --> 00:04:06.625
It was a great journey, especially as a consultant, because I have a lot of frameworks and tools and stories and all this stuff, and the book forces you to put everything together into a chapter that somebody can digest and understand.

00:04:08.150 --> 00:04:11.622
And it's a great way to share all the great knowledge you have with people.

00:04:11.622 --> 00:04:13.146
Yeah, thanks, thanks for doing that.

00:04:13.146 --> 00:04:16.319
So let's jump in and tell us a story.

00:04:16.319 --> 00:04:17.583
We're ready to be inspired.

00:04:17.583 --> 00:04:20.533
You've worked with a lot of great brands.

00:04:20.533 --> 00:04:23.702
Tell us a story about some of the best marketing you've done.

00:04:23.702 --> 00:04:25.108
That's had some great impact.

00:04:25.720 --> 00:04:36.172
So I want to start with a trend that I see happening within a lot of organizations right now, and that is there's three common marketing traps that I am finding that companies are falling into.

00:04:36.172 --> 00:04:38.985
The first is the random acts of marketing.

00:04:38.985 --> 00:04:41.831
This is no cohesive strategy.

00:04:41.831 --> 00:04:46.588
Let's do a campaign, let's do an event, let's do another campaign, and nothing really seems to be connected.

00:04:46.588 --> 00:04:49.613
The second is the silver bullet approach.

00:04:49.613 --> 00:05:01.341
That's the belief that there is one thing that's going to help move the needle, and we're constantly looking for a silver bullet, and other companies seem to have figured it out, but we just need to figure it out for ourselves.

00:05:01.341 --> 00:05:04.807
And then the third is this bright, shiny object syndrome.

00:05:04.807 --> 00:05:22.865
This is happening in a lot of scaling organizations where everyone's a marketer, everyone has an idea, and so we tend to chase the new flavor of the day or the new tactic or the new technology of the day, and so what I have realized working with a lot of companies is that there's not a marketing problem per se.

00:05:22.865 --> 00:05:29.485
There is an alignment problem, and so my story is going to be around achieving alignment.

00:05:29.485 --> 00:05:37.350
It's very hard to do, actually, and this is it's something that I think a lot of marketers are expected to do.

00:05:37.350 --> 00:05:41.651
You can think of all of the departments and how the company is organized.

00:05:41.651 --> 00:05:50.149
Marketing is in this kind of pole position to be able to organize and orchestrate everything, and yet many are not rising to that challenge.

00:05:50.149 --> 00:05:57.281
And one of the things that I like to do is to break down those barriers, break down those silos and to help create alignment and buy-in.

00:05:57.281 --> 00:06:04.685
I think McKinsey has a stat that over 70% of change initiatives fail due to lack of alignment and lack of buy-in.

00:06:04.685 --> 00:06:06.901
So that's the context for this.

00:06:07.163 --> 00:06:09.548
I was working with a client in particular.

00:06:09.548 --> 00:06:12.922
They sell a software to small, medium business.

00:06:12.922 --> 00:06:15.367
They're a very well-known brand.

00:06:15.367 --> 00:06:23.487
They have millions of people that are using their platform and yet they had this, one of those common marketing traps.

00:06:23.487 --> 00:06:24.028
They had all those.

00:06:24.028 --> 00:06:33.786
They were random acts of marketing, disconnected, bright, shiny, object, and the area that we wanted to tackle first was around messaging and it's around value proposition.

00:06:33.786 --> 00:06:43.166
So the question of what do we do and why do we do it and why do customers buy from us, seems like an easy question.

00:06:43.166 --> 00:07:03.759
When you start asking this question internally to different departments to the sales team and to the product team, and to the executive team and to the marketing team you realize you get different answers for this, and so, in order for marketing to be effective, we have to really be the drumbeat of a consistent message out in the market, right?

00:07:03.759 --> 00:07:09.031
If we're constantly changing our mind and one day we're this and the next day we're something else, that never resonates with anybody.

00:07:09.031 --> 00:07:21.932
So I went on this journey with this particular client to help reorganize their value proposition, and we came up with three value themes that are really what customers want.

00:07:21.932 --> 00:07:24.485
This is an interesting way to organize your marketing.

00:07:24.485 --> 00:07:33.387
So, instead of just writing random content, you're now making sure that your content can answer the question of what's in it for our customer, or what are we helping our customer achieve?

00:07:34.201 --> 00:07:40.449
Often, we are expecting our customers to connect those dots or there's like such a broken link.

00:07:40.449 --> 00:07:49.240
So there's a lot of companies, for example, that have on their homepage transform your entire organization, and then it's how you have to buy our project management software.

00:07:49.240 --> 00:07:54.463
Like, really, is a project management software going to transform everybody's lives and the entire business?

00:07:54.463 --> 00:07:55.144
I don't think so.

00:07:55.144 --> 00:08:01.430
So we start to get skeptical as customers, right when we see this, and it's the marketer's job to create a better leakage.

00:08:01.430 --> 00:08:07.225
Maybe it's transform how your company is managing projects or how you're spending your time.

00:08:07.225 --> 00:08:10.827
That seems a little bit more believable than transforming your entire organization.

00:08:11.399 --> 00:08:19.767
Anyways, we ended up coming up with these three themes, and the way that we did that was we looked at customer research and customer data that had been collected.

00:08:19.767 --> 00:08:34.399
We did interviews with the sales team and we did interviews with the customer success team these are the customer facing departments of the organization and so all three of those things informed how we came up with these themes.

00:08:34.399 --> 00:08:51.062
Now, the beauty of this is once, because we were rooting this in data and because we got the buy in from these different organizations who are interacting with customers, once we prevented those three themes back to the organization, everybody was nodding their head in agreement yes, we agree, these are the three themes.

00:08:51.062 --> 00:08:52.705
We agree, we agree with you.

00:08:52.705 --> 00:08:58.523
There was no room really for debate because this was not the marketing department's opinion, right.

00:08:58.523 --> 00:09:02.307
This was now rooted in real data and information.

00:09:02.427 --> 00:09:28.240
So we got everybody first to agree upon that and align and then, second, I started to build out the narrative and the story around each of those three themes, and that is a whole separate sort of other process and skill set of how do you convince somebody and influence somebody that you understand what the problem is, that you understand you can quantify the problem and that you understand that you have an answer to that problem.

00:09:28.845 --> 00:09:37.553
And so we went on this journey to build that out and to then again going back to the alignment thing educate everybody else internally, right.

00:09:37.575 --> 00:09:48.731
The worst thing that marketing can do is to sit behind their screen and create down a whole bunch of content that maybe five people understand when the rest of the organization is not following.

00:09:48.873 --> 00:10:18.173
So we did an internal launch of this internal training around this internal talking points so that the sales team can feel comfortable learning this new narrative and telling this new story, so that we now have alignment with what customers are seeing out on the website in the format of content and events and webinars, but also then, when they pick up the phone or finally set up a meeting with the sales team, they're now getting consistency with being able to tell that full story.

00:10:18.996 --> 00:10:31.256
I would say I'm proud of that example because I've had the client come to me and say we've been trying for years to get alignment on what message we want to say out in the market and how consistently we can tell our story.

00:10:31.256 --> 00:10:39.972
And you've simplified it with the framework and you helped take our whole entire team through this journey, and now we're getting to see the results of that with the alignment.

00:10:39.972 --> 00:10:53.667
Everybody's excited about it, everybody knows what they're working on, the priorities are very clear, and then we're starting to make a real impact in the market with revenue and growth and getting new opportunities, because we're now speaking the language of the customer.

00:10:54.469 --> 00:10:58.931
So ultimately did it have a big impact on their growth and in their business.

00:10:59.755 --> 00:11:01.144
Yeah, and it's still in progress.

00:11:01.144 --> 00:11:22.350
Yes, we're seeing like tremendous opportunities that are coming that did not come before because their ads were generic, their cold calling and their outreach and their sales messages were generic, and now we're tailoring that into what customers want and we're connecting the dots for them, and so we're starting to see a lot of new opportunity.

00:11:22.350 --> 00:11:30.049
Fails is hitting their number and then we have very aggressive growth targets we're on track to achieve.

00:11:32.053 --> 00:11:37.350
I think it's very interesting to get that alignment and the buy-in as you outlined it.

00:11:37.350 --> 00:11:44.794
I've lived all of the pitfalls that you've said in different organizations and B2B marketing and sales over the years.

00:11:44.794 --> 00:11:52.410
One of the reasons I think it happens is just because people think about things in different ways cross-functionally, and that's okay.

00:11:52.410 --> 00:12:10.187
I think the other reason that it happens, though, is if marketers are taking the ivory tower approach and just trying to come up with stuff without talking to the customers and talking to the people who are on the front lines talking to the customers.

00:12:10.187 --> 00:12:24.370
That's where you get that disconnect that, when they try to take forward a story that marketing gives them that doesn't resonate with people, then they just make up stuff of their own.

00:12:24.370 --> 00:12:33.836
That's generally what's happened, and so it's great to have a process like the one you outlined, where it's the opposite of that, if you will.

00:12:34.725 --> 00:12:36.832
Yeah, and I think that's a really good point.

00:12:36.832 --> 00:12:38.519
It is interesting.

00:12:38.519 --> 00:12:41.226
I've been on both the marketing and the sales side.

00:12:41.226 --> 00:13:00.333
So what's interesting when marketing comes up with a story, comes up with a narrative, comes up with a theme, comes up with content, if there is no internal training or alignment with the sales team as to how to tell that story, how to get salespeople confident to tell that story, they will never use it.

00:13:00.333 --> 00:13:04.792
They're going to stick with what works or they're going to try something that feels confident to them.

00:13:04.792 --> 00:13:10.214
And so marketers, on the other hand, have never been in a sales role where you have to.

00:13:10.214 --> 00:13:17.767
It's like improv, right, you have come prepared to tell something and then, who knows, they're going to throw a curve ball at you and you have to be prepared.

00:13:17.767 --> 00:13:43.110
And so it's like different skill sets coming together to create something and really recognizing that we're coming from different places, that we onto the core message, like some of them, are very funny and they come up with great jokes.

00:13:43.610 --> 00:13:50.770
Other ones are just very suave and they're just the sexiest salesperson alive and they charm people.

00:13:50.770 --> 00:14:02.975
Other salespeople are product gurus and they can answer literally any technical question you have about their product and it's really interesting to watch how people can take a core message and put their own spin on it.

00:14:02.975 --> 00:14:08.092
That doesn't mean they make it any different, but I think that level of customization is okay.

00:14:08.092 --> 00:15:07.413
But the issue is when you don't have a command of the central message and everybody is just talking about things in their own way, the lack of consistency there is really what trips a lot of organizations up, and one of the favorite things I've done to show organizations and leadership teams that this is a problem is I would actually set up a recording studio in a conference room and I would have a hundred people from the company come in and I would ask them what is your elevator pitch about what the company does, and have them talk for 30 seconds and then I would create a video of how everyone talked about it differently and it was really the funniest thing you've ever seen, because there's no wrong answers, but some were definitely better than others in terms of describing what the company does and the value proposition and what problem they solve for customers.

00:15:08.115 --> 00:15:19.418
But it's funny how companies have this problem of being able to clearly convey who they are, what they do, the problem they solve.

00:15:19.418 --> 00:15:23.288
Clearly convey who they are, what they do, the problem they solve and the value that they provide.

00:15:23.288 --> 00:15:27.256
It's really interesting to watch so many companies struggle with that.

00:15:27.256 --> 00:15:29.708
I would say it's the outlier that companies have figured it out.

00:15:29.708 --> 00:15:30.751
Is that what you've seen?

00:15:31.614 --> 00:15:38.056
Yes, yeah, exactly, that's pretty much the book I wrote with my colleagues was around this whole time.

00:15:38.056 --> 00:15:40.873
We did a bunch of research with organizations.

00:15:40.873 --> 00:15:55.947
Of course, we worked in our organizations ourselves where this happened, and it is a common problem with B2B companies, and in a B2B company you have this extra layer that throws a little bit of a wrench into it.

00:15:55.947 --> 00:16:05.828
And I love what you said about, yeah, making sure that the sales team is trained to tell the story, but they, of course we want them to put their spin on it, and you could see that's happened to you.

00:16:05.828 --> 00:16:28.556
Like the light bulb goes off with sellers Once they've learned the story, then they go tell it and then they tell it again, and then they see it start to work, and then they start selling, and now they have stories of their own of clients that they've already sold, and so they know the questions to anticipate, they know what to expect, and then they can reference even the clients that they've sold, and so it starts to take on a life of their own.

00:16:28.556 --> 00:16:35.697
But the core essence of the message is the same, and so it's magical when it happens.

00:16:35.697 --> 00:16:37.206
It is a lot of work to get there.

00:16:37.206 --> 00:16:46.019
I've been working with this client for six or seven months now to get to this point of alignment on that, but there's a payoff.

00:16:46.019 --> 00:16:50.315
But I guess, all that to say, the question becomes who drives that?

00:16:50.315 --> 00:16:51.476
Who drives that process?

00:16:51.476 --> 00:17:03.643
And you either are needing to bring somebody in externally, or marketing, if they have the skill set on the team, needs to really step up to be that orchestrator to make it happen.

00:17:03.643 --> 00:17:21.916
So you're saying it's not easy.

00:17:21.936 --> 00:17:24.159
What is the hardest part about doing this?

00:17:24.159 --> 00:17:30.002
Almost like you have to treat your internal constituents and stakeholders like a customer segment.

00:17:30.002 --> 00:17:35.054
So you do this exact same process to understand who your customers are.

00:17:35.054 --> 00:17:38.868
How do they make decisions, what motivates them, what are their pain points, what are their issues?

00:17:38.868 --> 00:17:45.109
Right, and you do all of that research so that you can position your product in a favorable way so that they hopefully say yes.

00:17:45.109 --> 00:17:49.616
You have to basically apply the same principles to your internal stakeholders.

00:17:49.616 --> 00:17:51.448
What does the sales team want?

00:17:51.448 --> 00:17:53.413
What is their motivation?

00:17:53.413 --> 00:17:54.395
What's their biggest fear?

00:17:54.395 --> 00:17:55.406
What is their pain point?

00:17:55.406 --> 00:17:55.828
Right?

00:17:55.828 --> 00:18:01.766
How can marketing help position this thing as the answer to getting what they want?

00:18:01.766 --> 00:18:05.755
And you rinse, repeat all right, what about the product team?

00:18:05.755 --> 00:18:10.126
The product team wants something different, by the way, than the sales team Right.

00:18:10.126 --> 00:18:17.392
The executive team wants something different than the product team, and so you have to just approach each of these like a customer segment.

00:18:17.471 --> 00:18:19.794
Reason why this is so hard for companies to do?

00:18:19.794 --> 00:18:20.575
What is that underlying reason?

00:18:20.575 --> 00:18:33.207
Is it just that it takes a lot of time?

00:18:33.207 --> 00:18:38.397
Is it just that people don't realize it has to be prioritized?

00:18:38.397 --> 00:18:39.385
I'm just curious.

00:18:40.227 --> 00:18:41.228
Here's my take.

00:18:41.228 --> 00:18:56.753
I think humans in general have a hard time putting themselves in somebody else's shoes, and so when I have done these workshops and sessions, you hear things like I never watch video.

00:18:56.753 --> 00:19:04.361
I only I never would read a long post, I would never go to YouTube and watch a short right.

00:19:04.361 --> 00:19:10.917
And so you hear these because they're putting it in their own frame of reference and I think that's the psychology piece.

00:19:10.917 --> 00:19:16.555
It's hard for them to get out of their own frame of reference, and so very few companies really have mastered that.

00:19:16.555 --> 00:19:17.568
I think it was Amazon.

00:19:17.568 --> 00:19:18.909
Right, that's we're customer first.

00:19:18.909 --> 00:19:19.932
What does the customer want?

00:19:19.932 --> 00:19:21.015
How would the customer react?

00:19:21.644 --> 00:19:31.608
You have to train yourself to actually think about somebody else and how they may react or what they might think or what they might do else, and how they may react or what they might think or what they might do.

00:19:31.608 --> 00:19:34.275
And I think that's the hardest part is that is not natural for people even in.

00:19:34.275 --> 00:19:35.898
Think of your own personal relationships.

00:19:35.898 --> 00:19:39.698
Right, it's like your way, it's like this.

00:19:39.698 --> 00:19:54.865
Of course, this is how it is, this is my belief and this is what it is, and you may even have a spouse that you've been married to for a long time that has a different way and it's hard to see their point of view, and so it's the same.

00:19:54.886 --> 00:20:02.750
Now it's amplified right into an internal organization where you have hundreds of people to convince and rally, and so it's coming at it from a neutral position.

00:20:02.750 --> 00:20:05.676
That's what I would say for marketers, If you can come from a neutral position.

00:20:05.676 --> 00:20:08.476
I am literally not attached to the outcome of this.

00:20:08.476 --> 00:20:11.411
I don't care if we do this idea or if we don't do this idea.

00:20:11.411 --> 00:20:12.575
I'm not trying to sell you anything.

00:20:12.575 --> 00:20:20.719
I'm just trying to gather everybody and come to one general consensus and collaborative idea.

00:20:22.046 --> 00:20:55.194
Then you're more detached from it and you can help the process go along versus defending your point of view or defending your opinion, differences of opinion, debates between marketing and sales, and product and customer success, and people were just thinking about things differently.

00:20:55.194 --> 00:20:58.888
His advice was to solve those arguments.

00:20:58.888 --> 00:21:08.901
You always just need to step back and make the argument from the other person's point of view to try to understand where they're coming from.

00:21:08.901 --> 00:21:21.147
From the other person's point of view to try to understand where they're coming from, and if you can do that, then we can probably find middle ground, because he hated being the one that had to arbitrate between the divisions of who's right, because it's really not a question of who's right and wrong.

00:21:21.407 --> 00:21:27.451
Sometimes it's a question of better or best, but it's definitely not right or wrong.

00:21:27.451 --> 00:21:37.205
In a lot of cases, it's just different perspectives or different approaches, and so I think that this is a very important thing for people to put into practice.

00:21:37.205 --> 00:21:43.058
If you can do this, I think you can be very successful in what you've outlined.

00:21:43.944 --> 00:21:50.727
Yeah, it's a leadership role ultimately right, it's like you're stepping into that leadership function at that point.

00:21:52.148 --> 00:21:53.751
Exactly so.

00:21:53.751 --> 00:22:00.853
You mentioned to me that you had a assessment that people could take to figure out where they're at with their marketing.

00:22:00.853 --> 00:22:02.096
Can you share a little bit about that?

00:22:02.884 --> 00:22:04.930
Created a free scorecard.

00:22:04.930 --> 00:22:07.557
It's, I think, 20 or 25 questions.

00:22:07.557 --> 00:22:17.946
It's online, it's quick to fill out and the whole purpose of it is to help you identify where you have strengths in your marketing approach and where you might have gaps.

00:22:17.946 --> 00:22:22.336
The only requirement is that you're honest about it, right?

00:22:22.336 --> 00:22:28.224
We all think that we're very self-aware and I think we tend to over-inflate maybe some of our answers.

00:22:28.224 --> 00:22:37.491
So if you are honest, it will really illuminate some areas that you should focus on to the business and this is based on just a little bit of background.

00:22:37.813 --> 00:22:52.869
I get called into companies, never from really the marketing team for assessment, but from the CEO or the chief revenue officer or the CO, who wants to know how the marketing team is doing and do they have the right skill sets and the right approach.

00:22:52.869 --> 00:22:57.547
And so I created this to help marketers really avoid getting blindsided.

00:22:57.547 --> 00:23:02.568
If you're honest and you're looking at this, this is what your CEO wants and this is what your CEO expects.

00:23:02.568 --> 00:23:14.436
And so if you have gaps and you start to address some of those gaps, then you can bridge those perception issues and expectation issues that your C-suite has of the marketing team.

00:23:16.486 --> 00:23:16.885
Awesome.

00:23:16.885 --> 00:23:23.239
I will drop a link in the show notes for that so everyone can easily get to that.

00:23:23.239 --> 00:23:27.846
I encourage everyone to share this episode with your friends so that they can get these great insights.

00:23:27.846 --> 00:23:30.218
I encourage everyone to check out Stacey your friends so that they can get these great insights.

00:23:30.218 --> 00:23:31.464
I encourage everyone to check out Stacy's books.

00:23:31.464 --> 00:23:38.561
And until our episode tomorrow, remember that marketing will never be easy, but it should always be fun.