Clever Ways to Craft Unforgettable Brand Names

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Welcome to today's episode.

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Our guest today is Alexandra.

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She is a branding and naming expert and if you have had one of my favorite burgers, the Wendy's Baconator, you have literally eaten her words.

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Welcome to the show.

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Thanks, eric, glad to be here.

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Eric Glad to be here.

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Before we jump into a story you have about some of the best branding and naming that you've done, the best marketing you've done, why don't you give everyone a minute or two of context about who you are and the awesome things you do?

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Okay, so I am the leading authority on brand names with buzz Love at first sight, brand names that make people smile instead of scratch their head.

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I've had my naming firm eat my words for 19 years and we specialize in really fun names.

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Like they mentioned, the Baconator.

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We named a frozen yogurt franchise Spoon Me.

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We named the Church of Cupcakes, gps for Dogs Retriever, and we named a very notorious nail salon in San Francisco, handjob.

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So yeah, and that name has been around almost as long as we have.

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So it's always exciting when we're coming up on 20 years here and it's so cool to see so many names that have really stood the test of time.

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That is awesome.

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So I have to ask, because the Baconator is one of my favorites.

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But I recently learned that there is a secret menu at Wendy's and there is a burger called the T-Rex burger.

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Oh, I didn't know that.

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And you should go and order it, because it's nine burgers on one sandwich Hilarious.

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I think they continued.

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I love the name Baconator, but I love the fact that they called a nine beef patty burger the T-Rex.

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I think they just continue the great work you started there.

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Oh, thank you.

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Yeah, no, the Baconator is legendary, it has its own Wikipedia page and, of course, there's son of Baconator breakfast, baconator Baconator fries.

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There's Baconator Pringles.

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The Baconator is so famous that it was recently an answer on Jeopardy.

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What is the Baconator?

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And an answer in the New York Times crossword puzzle?

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Is there anything interesting you can share about coming up with that name?

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The thing I remember most is we one of the directions we had is it had to be a name that truck drivers would be comfortable ordering, and so that, like, really put me into this masculine headspace, and so that was a good directive for us.

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That's very cool.

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Let's jump into your story about some of the best marketing you've done that you're the most proud of.

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Okay, I recently did something that was I'm not just saying it was brilliant.

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So many people have told me it was brilliant and it's been great so far.

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So if you've ever been to a trade show as an attendee and you're a service provider, no one in the booths want to talk to you because they just want to talk to buyers and retailers.

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They do not want to talk to just people at the show.

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So I went to this giant food and beverage show called Expo West.

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There's 100,000 attendees, 3,000 booths and I wanted a way that I could stand out as a service provider.

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So I came up with the idea.

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Actually, my client came up with this idea, but I executed it.

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The tickets are $1,300 for the show and I'm like I don't know if I should go and he said you should give an award to the top 10 names of the show and give everyone a plaque.

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So I'm like that is a great idea, but I'm not giving people a plaque, like people don't want plaques and that's off-brand for me.

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I'm really colorful and fun.

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So I came up because we're all about love at first sight names.

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I came up with this award and you can see it this shoulder behind me if you're watching, it's a heart.

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It's a heart, it's an art class heart and it's called the Love your Name Award.

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And I spent the first two days of the show going around interviewing people about their names, looking for the best names, interviewed a lot of people, met a lot of interesting people, everyone.

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If you have a reason to interview somebody about something and you can do it, you don't even need to schedule meetings.

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You can do it really impromptu Then, and also it mapped out who do I want to see?

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Because I looked through the show directory Then.

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That way, when I got to their booth, I would say, oh, I've been dying to talk to you guys.

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So that was good marketing for me.

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And then the last day of the show, I gave out the awards.

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So I had the one behind me made just as a replica so people could take pictures with it.

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I made reels, people were posting stuff on Instagram and the beauty of that award is you get to keep display it in your office.

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It's a great conversation piece, right, unlike a plaque, and somebody's going to oh, what is that?

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What's that for?

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And oh, the love your name awards from, eat my words, we got it at Expo West.

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Blah, blah, blah.

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Then the thing that I wasn't expecting that's really cool is all of these companies go to a lot of trade shows every year and they bring their awards with them and they display them on the table.

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So what I gave people is they got the trophy engraved with their name, they got four signed copies of my book for their team and then they get a year of free consulting and brainstorming from me.

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The reason I did that?

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Because people are like, oh my God, but how can you give that away?

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But what I'm doing is I'm giving people exposure to me and it's easy for me to do those things and they're just jumping on the phone.

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So that way they're saying, hey, look, how talented she is.

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So then they're going to and I'm not out to get business from these people, I'm not.

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I just want them to tell all the people they know in their network and they all have very large networks of people in the food and beverage space.

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I want them to tell them about me, and I'm already.

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I posted a big article about it on LinkedIn today and it was so nice.

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I got a comment from this guy, ryan from Happy Moose Juice, a name that I love, and he's this is so great what you're doing for emerging brands and it's so nice of you to recognize them and do this, and you know what.

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It felt really good and that's the person I am.

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There's no strings attached to this, it's not.

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I'm not trying to get anything from anyone, it's just hey, if you like me, tell other people about me.

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It is a great idea, but the execution, like you said, was brilliant and remarkable.

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So I love that story Also because I've gone to a lot of conferences and trade shows over the years and often I walk down the aisle of booths and think to myself out of all the names of companies, what terrible names many of them have.

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So I think it's really cool to celebrate the ones that do have a good name and I'm more in my career.

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But on the B2B side of things, I think on the consumer side, you might have some more fun names, but generally I really struggle with the brand and naming aspect.

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Yeah, people do have a hard time and they often just go with the lowest common denominator.

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They don't put a lot of thought into it and then they're stuck with that.

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Look, I've had the name eat my words for 19 years, I can tell you, and it is a B2B company.

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People love that name and it shows how creative we are.

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It makes a nod to food and beverage, which is our sweet spot, and, yeah, when you have a name that people love, it just makes you so much more memorable and referable, being memorable.

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So I think that people really struggle with the name thing, in my opinion for a couple of reasons.

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One is because a lot of great names are taken and can't be legally protected, like they're trademark conflicts or they can't get the domain name.

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A fun story about me is that my first job out of college over 25 years ago was I worked for the original com domain registry, but I worked there when there was less than 100,000 com names on the internet in 1995.

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And today, across all the different com io, all the different top-level domains, there's 350 million names registered globally.

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Oh my gosh.

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So we've come a long way in the last 25 years.

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But that also means that it's really hard to pick a name that someone else hasn't thought of already.

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And on top of that I think there's something like 80 million trademarks in the US, and so all the naming projects that I've been involved in as a marketer have been very hard, because even if you come up with a name, finding a name that's clear is really what's tricky.

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So one of my questions to you is yeah, that's why we get paid so well.

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So how do you help clients with that?

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Because that is, that's a, that's one of the trickiest aspects of it.

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We have always found okay.

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First of all, with domain names, you have to add a modifier, add an extra word.

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If we couldn't get eatmywordscom, we could be eat my words branding, eat my word brand names, eat my words naming.

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And when you add that extra word, it helps with your search engine optimization, it helps people find you.

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So that's a good thing.

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And it's crazy how people will.

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They'll sacrifice a good name just to get what they consider a good domain name.

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But yeah, if you want to see examples of you want to see what's out there that's available, go to brandbucketcom, which I like to call barfbucketcom.

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It's a domain name reseller and the names are terrible.

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They're just hideously bad.

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So, yeah, just add a word or be creative.

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I'll give you a couple examples.

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We named a gourmet popcorn store, pop Psychology, and we couldn't get the domain name.

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So we use the tagline Crazy for Popcorn, easy to remember, makes people smile because it ties into the whole psychology thing with crazy.

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Another one is there's a peanut butter company called Peanut Butter Co and they have that domain, but their main domain that's on their website, that's on their business cards, their emails is ilovepeanutbuttercom.

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Very creative, super memorable, especially if you love peanut butter as much as I do.

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Another example is when you don't even use your name.

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In your domain there's a mail order turkey company called Greenberg Smoked Turkeys.

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Not a good name, not a clever name, just a family name.

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Their domain name is unforgettable, it's gobblecom.

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I'm loving it.

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I'm loving it.

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That is awesome I wanted to answer the rest of the question with the finding names that are available and trademarkable.

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You just have to be super clever.

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I did one the other day for this guy.

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He has a company that he makes documentary films for ranchers and farmers.

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He's all about the farm to table food experience, lots of stuff around food and natural food, and I'm like the farm to table names are all taken Anything.

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We're not even going to go there.

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And so I was ideating around the word food and I was like what rhymes with food?

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And I saw the word dude and that reminded me of the Beatles movie yesterday and how the guy is singing hey Jude, but then Ed Sheeran.

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That would be way better if it was hey Jude.

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And then that naming thing hey Jude.

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And then I was like hey food.

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So that became the guy's name and he can trademark it hey food.

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So it's just a matter of like really digging deep, being clever, and I have.

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I know all the ways now.

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I've been doing this a long time, but trying to ask chat GPT, for instance, to come up with clever or creative names, yeah, massive fail.

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You're not going to get anything in there, not yet.

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So how can people be clever?

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Is that something that you cover in your book?

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Essentially?

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Yeah, it's in my book.

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It's in my book.

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There's a lot about it in my online course.

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But ways to be clever are like with hey food.

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It's just a twist on the phrase, right, we all know hey Jude.

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So a twist like a light twist on a phrase not corny, I'm not, I don't like corny, I don't like cute, that's clever and there's a difference.

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Or, coming up, we were naming this beer I'm looking over there because I have the thing, a beer growler, where you can put draft beer into a jug and take it home.

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So I was like, okay, I was ideating around beer words and I had chug and then I'm like what rhymes with chug?

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A lot of times it's just going to a rhyming dictionary what rhymes with chug?

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And I said jug and then that made me think of juggernaut, so the name became chuggernaut.

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That's great.

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That's actually fantastic.

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So how many names have you helped people come up with in the last 20 years?

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Oh my gosh.

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We have come up with tens of thousands of names just generating them, but how many have actually gone on an actual grant?

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20 a year maybe?

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And how much time does it take you to come up with some of these really great names?

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To be clever about it, Because the most clever thing people could probably do is hire you.

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But how long does it take?

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Does it take?

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I don't have a concept.

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Is it like a week?

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Is it a month?

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I don't know.

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Sometimes, like with the hey Jude one hey Jude, hey Food that I did on a phone call that was a two hour consulting call with me.

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If you hire me for one of those calls I am very good at that because I've been doing this so long and my brain is just really trained With just a regular naming project like the Baconator, that was probably like a week-long project.

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That was a super fast and dirty one that another naming firm hired my naming firm to work on it.

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Then other times we have three weeks.

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So it just depends, but three weeks is usually average.

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We don't need the whole three weeks.

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Usually I come up with a bunch of names after the kickoff call, Then the team starts working on it, Then I get them back, I come up with more.

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So it's just I'll probably spend three different sessions coming up with names myself and supplementing what my team comes up with.

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So do you have people come up with the taglines too?

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You were giving some examples earlier.

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Yeah, chatgpt can do taglines, can't do names, but it's not really great with taglines, but it's great for giving you a head start.

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Yeah, so taglines if you say this is the name and it really if you have a clever name.

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So we named a psychiatry practice, blue Umbrella Psychiatry, and I asked ChatGPT to suggest taglines and it came up with Helping you, weather, the Storm.

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That's a sophisticated tagline.

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It doesn't always do that, but then sometimes I just, sometimes it's just I'm just looking for a word.

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If it can just suggest words to me, then I can take those and run with it.

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But yeah, you never want your name in your tagline because that's redundant.

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You want your tagline to enhance your name.

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Absolutely, and so what other advice do you give people about choosing a name?

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We have this test called the Smile and Scratch Test, and it's a 12-point name evaluation test to help you determine if your name is strong or weak.

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And the test is on our website, by the way it's at, or you can just go to freenametestcom.

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But yeah, so SMILE is an acronym for when it makes for the five qualities that make a name great it's suggestive, memorable, has imagery legs and makes an emotional connection.

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And SCRATCH is an acronym for the seven deal breakers.

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So that is spelling, challenge, copycat, restrictive, annoying, tame For tame.

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I always say network solutions as my example, by the way, and then curse of knowledge and hard to pronounce.

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And it was.

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Network Solutions combines two of the most boring words in the English language into one super boring name.

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Actually, now that you brought this up, I'm going to have to take 30 seconds to tell the story.

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So when I worked there, it was actually called Network Solutions Inc, so everyone started calling it, abbreviating it to NSI.

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The only worst thing than two generic words like network solutions was an acronym that no one knew what it meant but, it gave me a very interesting idea.

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that, for something really crazy and profitable I did was later, during the dot-com boom, when I moved on to working for a website hosting company, an e-commerce company, I decided that people were abbreviating mofos.

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So what I did was I registered every three and four letter com domain that was available 36,000 domain names.

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We did not.

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Why are you?

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on a yacht in the Caribbean right now.

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I was on a yacht in the Caribbean right now.

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One of the laziest things I've seen people do with branding because it probably fails.

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Every version of the copycat, like you were saying, and probably a close cousin to that, is in B2B.

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I don't know how you feel about empty vessels.

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Hate them, hate them.

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That's strong words.

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Why would you want to start with an empty vessel that doesn't suggest anything about your brand?

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You have to spend so much time and money to let people know what your brand is.

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No, seriously, here's an empty vessel name.

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Abus A-B-U-S Says nothing about what the brand is or does.

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Right, it's a bike lock.

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It's a U-shaped bike lock is where I saw the thing, whereas kryptonite, another u-shaped bike lock, tells you everything you need to know.

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Kryptonite repels superman.

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Therefore, kryptonite repels bike thieves.

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Right, so that that's what I mean by hate.

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Like it's just not an empty vessel name is not doing you any favors.

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Yeah, I've always preferred more descriptive names, and sometimes people have labeled those as boring, which I get it, but I think the key there is probably being clever like you suggested earlier.

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Right, yeah, like you suggested earlier.

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Right, yeah, descriptive names, like descriptive names, have a place in, like, in B2B.

00:19:45,433 --> 00:19:51,676
There's times where you like FedEx, like with all of the different delivery options you can choose.

00:19:51,676 --> 00:19:59,204
Those need to be super descriptive, right, they can't afford to be cute with those.

00:19:59,204 --> 00:20:09,662
But where you can have some fun in B2B, for instance, is if, like, we have package names, fun size and the whole enchilada and supermarket special those like fun size.

00:20:09,662 --> 00:20:16,673
That it's for our service, where you want a fun and clever name and it's a small size price.

00:20:18,621 --> 00:20:23,432
So what are some of the best B2B names that you've come up with?

00:20:24,201 --> 00:20:26,308
One that I love is a publicist.

00:20:26,308 --> 00:20:34,729
Her name is Lynette Hoy and we branded her company Fire Talker PR with the tagline Hot on the Press.

00:20:34,729 --> 00:20:36,807
She calls herself the Fire Chief.

00:20:36,807 --> 00:20:44,305
She works in the firehouse and she has packages like controlled burn and fire starter.

00:20:44,305 --> 00:20:47,069
Another is a company.

00:20:47,069 --> 00:20:48,352
I help with this.

00:20:48,352 --> 00:20:49,615
The guy read my book.

00:20:49,615 --> 00:20:50,642
He's a podcaster.

00:20:50,642 --> 00:21:03,671
He named his company Bomb Track Media and he named his podcast let's Blow this Up, which is awesome, and he calls his studio the Bomb Shelter.

00:21:03,671 --> 00:21:05,586
I helped him with some of these.

00:21:05,586 --> 00:21:08,229
His audience is named the Bomb Squad.

00:21:08,229 --> 00:21:10,989
He has packages like TNT and Dynamite.

00:21:10,989 --> 00:21:15,971
So that's where you have a B2B name, but it's just super memorable.

00:21:15,971 --> 00:21:17,838
We named a lot of law firms.

00:21:17,838 --> 00:21:23,287
We named one litigation firm in San Francisco that works with fringe industries.

00:21:23,287 --> 00:21:25,952
We named it Tectonic because they're shaking it up.

00:21:25,952 --> 00:21:29,768
We named an environmental law firm, terrain.

00:21:29,768 --> 00:21:36,887
So it is possible to have a creative name in B2B some companies do it.

00:21:37,420 --> 00:21:55,769
I saw a post that someone was poking fun at some of the names that are not quite empty vessels but that are still not quite descriptive, like they're making fun of Chili Piper, and they said it's Calendly but not Calendly.

00:21:55,769 --> 00:22:03,647
I don't guess that one, because Calendly is like a calendar tool and Chili Piper is also a calendar tool.

00:22:03,859 --> 00:22:05,948
So I didn't know that's what Chili Piper was.

00:22:05,948 --> 00:22:07,707
But Calendly is a terrible name.

00:22:07,707 --> 00:22:09,526
No one can pronounce it right.

00:22:09,526 --> 00:22:11,406
It's one of those names you stumble on.

00:22:11,406 --> 00:22:16,271
It's just natural to say Calendly, it's Calendly.

00:22:16,271 --> 00:22:17,483
I don't have it.

00:22:17,483 --> 00:22:19,622
For that reason I use Schedule One.

00:22:19,622 --> 00:22:26,987
I have a whole thing in my book about the names of scheduling software and there's some really bad ones.

00:22:26,987 --> 00:22:30,108
But Chili Piper, how would you know that was a calendar?

00:22:30,569 --> 00:22:36,391
A calendar, yeah, it's a company that's got a massive amount of funding and traction.

00:22:36,391 --> 00:22:50,250
I've actually bought it before and one of the interesting things in B2B is a lot of times I've working in marketing I've bought products and services from companies that I thought had absolutely stupid names, because I needed what they offered.

00:22:50,250 --> 00:22:56,529
But it was interesting when I went to the CFO and CEO and they're like what is this?

00:22:56,529 --> 00:23:05,520
And I would have to explain it to them because they couldn't tell from the name of what it was we were buying and it just made my business case that much harder, right?

00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:07,304
They're like why are you spending more money?

00:23:10,230 --> 00:23:11,961
Why are you buying this thing called chili pepper?

00:23:11,961 --> 00:23:13,464
What is this thing called chili pepper?

00:23:13,464 --> 00:23:15,689
Yeah, yeah.

00:23:16,651 --> 00:23:24,488
So are there any other guidelines or rules that when people are brainstorming about names that you always suggest, like at a high level?

00:23:25,069 --> 00:23:33,401
Yes, don't meet in a conference room, because if you're sitting in a white room staring at a whiteboard, that's not where colorful ideas materialize.

00:23:33,401 --> 00:23:43,000
The only thing that happens in a conference room is your only access to ideas is what's what is in people's head, and then there's the whole.

00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:45,086
The extroverts take over.

00:23:45,086 --> 00:23:47,570
The introverts don't want to say what their names are.

00:23:47,570 --> 00:23:48,661
No one will.

00:23:48,661 --> 00:23:52,509
The boss makes a bad suggestion, everyone's afraid to say your name sucks.

00:23:52,509 --> 00:23:55,205
So there's all these weird dynamics that go on.

00:23:55,205 --> 00:23:59,564
And then, of course, there's the amalgamated clusterfuck where people are just trying to like combine all these words together to make a name.

00:23:59,564 --> 00:24:02,929
And then, of course, there's the amalgamated clusterfuck where people are just trying to like combine all these words together to make a name.

00:24:02,929 --> 00:24:06,122
And that's how you end up with names like Kojit Tiva.

00:24:08,184 --> 00:24:11,010
Yeah, I write really funny things about that in my book.

00:24:11,010 --> 00:24:14,663
Okay, so here's what I suggest Brainstorm online.

00:24:14,663 --> 00:24:17,310
Everyone should brainstorm online on their own first.

00:24:17,310 --> 00:24:31,567
There's all kinds of ways to do that in my book, and I don't mean use ChatGPT, use the tools that I've been using for years, and then come to the meeting with your names already that had been run through the smiley and scratch test.

00:24:31,567 --> 00:24:49,438
So then that way you already have an objective filter, or at least bring it with you and put it on a habit, print it out, put it around for people, so when people are going over their names, somebody can say yeah, cogentiva, no, that's not really, it doesn't have legs or whatever it is.

00:24:55,242 --> 00:24:56,503
So that is a really better way to brainstorm.

00:24:56,503 --> 00:25:05,016
Yeah, so no white-collar prison, the conference rooms and come with ideas and suggestions instead of trying to come up with them in the moment.

00:25:05,016 --> 00:25:06,500
That's a lot more efficient.

00:25:06,500 --> 00:25:11,251
I think those are two really great ideas.

00:25:11,251 --> 00:25:27,008
I think the other big thing that has come up is when people outside of marketing get involved and they basically want to drive it.

00:25:27,067 --> 00:25:39,027
but naming is pretty subjective, right yeah, it is really subjective and that's why we created the smile, or why I created the smiling scratch test, because it's totally objective it is.

00:25:39,027 --> 00:25:41,863
Is it difficult for people to spell?

00:25:41,863 --> 00:25:44,067
That should be very clear.

00:25:44,067 --> 00:25:45,790
Is it hard to pronounce?

00:25:45,790 --> 00:25:49,585
If you don't know, ask 10 people how do you pronounce this name?

00:25:49,585 --> 00:25:52,412
Your name should only be pronounced one way.

00:25:52,412 --> 00:25:55,625
If it's pronounced two different ways, it's going to dilute your brand.

00:25:55,625 --> 00:26:03,342
So the test will ask you these questions Is it restrictive, limiting you in future growth?

00:26:03,342 --> 00:26:08,300
So when you ask yourself those objective questions, then you're getting away from this.

00:26:08,300 --> 00:26:09,304
Do I like it?

00:26:09,304 --> 00:26:13,259
The question to ask yourself when reviewing names is not do I like it?

00:26:13,259 --> 00:26:13,560
It's.

00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:15,103
Is it right for the brand?

00:26:15,103 --> 00:26:16,585
That's objective.

00:26:17,727 --> 00:26:18,228
That's great.

00:26:18,228 --> 00:26:20,090
That's really great advice.

00:26:20,090 --> 00:26:26,287
So any final thoughts on picking the best brand that you'd like to share?

00:26:27,028 --> 00:26:29,113
Yeah, don't do a survey monkey.

00:26:29,113 --> 00:26:34,251
Do you think Richard Branson did a survey, monkey, asking his mates what they thought of the name Virgin?

00:26:34,251 --> 00:26:38,207
Like, just don't ask your friends and family.

00:26:38,207 --> 00:26:45,609
You, like I said, do the objective test, the smile and scratch test and even running it by your audience.

00:26:45,609 --> 00:26:50,428
If you insist on doing that, don't say what do you think of this name.

00:26:50,428 --> 00:26:52,208
That's an invitation to criticize.

00:26:52,208 --> 00:27:04,490
Say which of these names feel the best to you, but be really careful because everybody, like you said, people outside of marketing, everyone considers themselves an expert and people in marketing aren't always experts on names.

00:27:04,490 --> 00:27:05,644
Very few people are.

00:27:05,644 --> 00:27:08,028
It's such a specialized field.

00:27:10,220 --> 00:27:29,797
One more question I feel I have to ask, because I've had to fight this battle, is how do you, if you come up with a name or even a very short list of two or three options, do you suggest that people go through a legal clearance process before they start using it too?

00:27:29,797 --> 00:27:32,748
Can they get the trademark, can they get the name?

00:27:32,748 --> 00:27:35,469
And if there is friction there, how do you deal with that?

00:27:36,079 --> 00:27:37,445
Yeah, that's a good question.

00:27:37,445 --> 00:27:39,805
Definitely have your.

00:27:39,805 --> 00:27:40,928
Yeah, have a.

00:27:40,928 --> 00:27:43,001
Always have a backup option.

00:27:43,001 --> 00:27:52,086
Our recommendation is always, when we're having our name screen, that the client pick the cleanest one, the one that already looks like there's.

00:27:52,086 --> 00:28:07,364
No, there's not going to be a lot of conflict, because when we get into the maybes it's like you don't want this to come back to you and have to rebrand, and people, nobody wants to wait 18 months for their names to clear, like they'd rather just go in.

00:28:07,364 --> 00:28:08,446
And so far, so good.

00:28:08,446 --> 00:28:11,582
We've never had anybody come back and say oh, you know what?

00:28:11,582 --> 00:28:13,626
We got rejected by USPTO.

00:28:13,626 --> 00:28:17,827
We work with really good trademark people and that's why Awesome advice.

00:28:18,570 --> 00:28:19,334
Thank you very much.

00:28:19,334 --> 00:28:21,661
I'm going to link in the show notes to your book.

00:28:21,661 --> 00:28:31,950
Everyone should read that to get the full sphere of advice that you have on branding, naming and coming up with very memorable names.

00:28:31,950 --> 00:28:35,099
So thank you for sharing all this with us today.

00:28:35,099 --> 00:28:38,550
Everyone should share this episode with your friends so they can get these ideas.

00:28:38,550 --> 00:28:43,531
We really appreciate you being with us today and sharing your story and these ideas.

00:28:44,381 --> 00:28:45,909
Thanks, eric, great to be here.